In Eau Claire, down a small street in a modest duplex, two gay men are working hard to combat the image that there is no queer joy in small town America. Travis Gorell and Chance Smith were tired of only hearing news from the large LGBTQ enclaves on the coasts, in NYC and SF, while smaller cities, like Eau Claire, and small towns everywhere, were largely ignored—and subsequently passed over for opportunities. I’ll admit to this bias too, as someone who lives in Madison, despite spending the past few years driving all over the state covering queer people in all the little pockets of Wisconsin. I am always enamored of these people and their bravery to live out and proud among the Trump signs in the red counties, and Travis and Chance are no different.

Highlighting the Small Town Queer Experience 

They became friends years ago while doing drag shows, and for a few years they have bandied about the idea of trying to highlight their town, whose proximity to the Twin Cities tends to overshadow their queer community and events. They were recently hanging out in a bar feeling like “big city” perspectives were pervasive, and they decided it was time to highlight the small town queer experience.

Now, 15 episodes in, they have spoken at length of their own experiences in all facets of life, including dating, relationships, religion, and growing up queer. They are also unafraid of exploring the raunchier side of queer life, with episodes on kinks, and one entitled “Glory Holes and Cemetery Sex.” They’ve even received feedback from a segment of their straight female listeners that they want more of the “spicier content,” and there is always a segment in every episode that explores these areas.

Growing up Gay 

Travis grew up in Eau Claire and feels deep pride in his community, especially the drag scene, which he has helped grow from a show once a month at one bar in town to a show a week at least with multiple bars participating. He owns a hair salon, employing 10 people, eight of whom are queer-identifying people, and says that when people who work for him or customers who come in have a “different perspective” than him, he challenges himself and those around him to be welcoming, but to not allow it to moderate their queer joy. “Queer joy is the biggest resistance we have to this movement,” he told me, and even when he wants to run and hide, or is overwhelmed in a situation, he wears his joy as armor. As a larger-than-life drag queen and a personality to match, Travis is not going to shrink himself to fit what other people want of him. He is also deeply empathetic. When asked about protesters at events and possible fear for his own safety, he talks about them like someone you feel sorry for, like their hate is so pathetic that he is often more concerned for their safety than his own.

Chance, for his part, indicated that he would be okay with being a person that made those hateful protesters afraid, rolling his eyes when Travis expressed concern for them. Growing up in a small town near Mauston, Travis was raised to be deeply religious, and he didn’t come out until college after a brief career in a religious missions company. He was queer secretly, privately, but indicated that when he did come out, no one was very surprised. Now, living in Eau Claire with his husband, he also wears joy as an act of resistance, helped by British punk bands. Chance has more of an edge than Travis, invoking the protests from the AIDS epidemic as ways to fight back. “Urine speaks louder than words,” singer/songwriter Pat the Bunny once said, and while Chance does not advocate for violence, that quote speaks to him in this moment we are in.

Living Out Loud 

Even though things are charged now, neither Travis nor Chance are particularly afraid of continuing to live their life out loud in Eau Claire, where the University of Wisconsin–Eau Claire is one of the most queer-friendly campuses in the country. It even has a Rainbow Floor in the dorms specifically for queer students of any gender to feel safe and comfortable where they live. UW–Eau Claire also plays host to The Fire Ball, a large drag ball with 700+ attendees. (“Come as you are. Come as you want to be,” the main website for the event proclaims.) While they understand the “queer urge” to move to larger cities, they are committed to creating an environment in the Chippewa Valley so queers don’t feel they have to travel across the border to the Twin Cities to have and create opportunities.

Seeking Diverse Perspectives 

But they also understand and acknowledge their own limitations, and want the podcast to become more than just their own experiences. As two cis-passing queer white men, they want to open their platform up to the larger queer community in small town Wisconsin, hoping to bring in trans perspectives in particular. While many queer people move from their nascent towns, others don’t have the ability or desire to, and those people who stay should be celebrated, especially right now.

Standing on the Shoulders of Giants 

They want their podcast to be a beacon of hope for queer people in middle America, to bring light and resistance, and spread the word that the community is “here and queer, and not going anywhere.” Chance iterated that he felt that while it is a scary time, and it’s okay to be scared, now is the time to be “openly queer and authentically ourselves,” in a world that wants “us to skitter back into the closet.” He finds comfort and courage from thinking about our queer ancestors who faced greater odds and worse violence, saying that he is “standing on the shoulder of giants, and can’t let fear win.”

At 600 downloads a week, “Small Town Big Gays” is still a small podcast, but Chance and Travis were surprised at how far afield their listenership is, with many on the coasts and even one in Spain. And they want their listenership, and the breadth of experiences they cover, to grow as large as possible. Their “White Whale” interview is Trixie Mattell, who grew up in small town Wisconsin (Trixie, if you read this, they’d love for you to get in touch), but they want all kinds of queer people to talk to, and welcome people who’d like to be interviewed to reach them at [email protected]. Listeners and readers are also welcome to submit their funny Grindr stories, and requests for advice for the “Dear Khloe” segment, where Travis, as his drag persona, answers questions about life and love.